Notes from Licensing meeting

Notes from Open Meeting held on Monday 15 July to discuss Licensing (with regard to outside drinking and noise) and Busking

 Jesus Hospital Estate Residents Association and Columbia Tenants and Residents Association

Present: Kevin McKenna, Chair CTRA

                Linda Wilkinson, Chair JHERA

                Kathy Driver, Principal Licensing Officer LBTH

                Tom Lewis, Licensing Officer

                John Fortune, Neighbourhood Manager LBTH

                Carol Budd, Notetaker

A total of 69 individuals registered at the meeting.  

JHERA residents           36

CTRA residents              5

Other local residents 12

Businesses                    16

Linda and Kevin introduced the LBTH officers and set the parameters for the meeting.

The following represent a summary of the views expressed at the meeting, not a verbatim record of what was said or by whom. For clarity I will group comments about a single premises together

Kathy explained licensing from the perspective of the Council:

• Every premise license is different
• Some licenses have grandfather clauses predating the Council being made responsible for Licensing, taken over from the Courts.
• Most licenses have no end date. 
• Individuals can trigger a review of a license.
  • If you do this you should be clear about what you want to achieve.
  • You will need to provide evidence supporting your case.
  • You may be able to add Conditions to a license.
• Short of triggering a review, if you have a complaint, email your complaint to [email protected]. The Licensing Department will take your complaint to the Licensee and will respond to you.

KD questions for clarification, pending response:

Do premises now undergo a review process if this has not been initiated by and individual or group outside the Council?

• Outside Areas:
• If the premises has off sales there is no border.  A premises can only control the immediate vicinity of their premises and it is not regarded to be their responsibility to control an area of which they have no responsibility for.  Conditions can be imposed on licences, such as controlling numbers of people outside or where they are to be positioned, the process for this is through Review.

• Private land versus Public Highway or footpath.

KD can you expand on this? Especially with regard to Public Highway and footpath. Pending response

1. The general message from the residents was as follows:
   1. We want to note that individuals have tried and failed to address these issues as individuals.
   1. We do not want to close down business’s; we enjoy frequenting these places ourselves.
   1. We want good relations with our neighbours, whoever they are and whatever their business is.
   1. We have bought into a Sunday street market area, and note that the market enhances our area. We are tolerant of the disturbance of necessity associated with the operation of the market.
   1. We want to be able to enjoy our own homes, both indoor and outdoor spaces, in peace and quiet, especially at night when most of us need to sleep.

• General comments from the floor
  • People don’t like to make formal complaints.
  • Not sleeping is a mental health issue and the Council should enforce a sound and time limit.
  • While the area may have been mixed use, it was not always an area focused on licensed premises. Note that wood working finished at 5PM and did not occur during the weekend.
  • There has been an incremental increase in the number of licensed premises.
  • Much of the street drinking may be attributed to individuals who do not purchase liquor from the immediate premises but from an off license but come to ‘join the party’.
  • Both residents and license owners are perplexed at the differences between what individual premises are able to do with regard to outside drinking, especially where two premises are side by side but have very different license conditions.
  • The street has become a victim of its own success between the Columbia Road Flower Market on a Sunday and Christmas Wednesdays. Many tourists and outsiders now come into the area at other times to enjoy its charm.
  • People need to be aware that the Columbia Road premises are all residential as well as commercial, whether owner occupied or tenanted. There seems to be an assumption that the street is non-residential.
  •  The License Review meetings are set up to be adversorial, which is not helpful. The Council should address this approach.
  • People felt that if a premise has a license for drinkers to drink outside, should they not have the area for this demarked or roped off. This way they could identify whether drinkers were using their premise for supply of alcohol, or not. It would also prevent the creep along the street and overflow into the public highway and footpaths.
  • There was a general acceptance by all that during the Sunday market the area is impossible to police and outside drinking should be accepted until evening.
  • The market itself is not policed and trading continues long after the official close time of 2:00 PM. Some traders are still selling at 6:00 PM. This means the street cleaners cannot start work and street cleaning, which is itself noisy, can still be going on at 8PM or later.

• Birdcage
•  
•  
  • There are no restrictions on the Birdcage License.
  • Under the recent new management the noise nuisance has escalated.
  • 30-40 people will be outside on Wellington Row.
  • Staff seem to have little interest in inviting drinkers back inside at 1:00 in the morning. Some staff more responsive than others if residents go into the premises to complain.
  • Urination on residential doors frequently occurs.
  • Collection and disposal of glass bottles at 2AM on a Sunday morning is an issue which had been addressed under the previous management but now occurs again.

• Brawn
  • Brawn appears to be holding private events on a Sunday evening. These spill out onto the street late at night and can become very loud.

• Royal Oak
  • Required by their license conditions to have a Security Industry Authority Door Officer on Thursday, Friday and Saturday from 9:30 PM.
  • They bring people in from outside from 9:30PM. Rear gates are kept closed (except on Sunday) to prevent spill out into the street. This has alleviated some of the noise problem.
  • Noted that their rates and rent have increased by 75% since they took over the business in 2004. (Note that the effect of inflation over that period is 50%).

• Summing Up
  • Residents were generally in agreement that an outside drinking curfew of 9:30 PM, if enforced would be acceptable.
  • The licensees could reach a voluntary code of conduct and agree to meeting the residents request, irrespective of license conditions.
  • The licensees could make an informal agreement to use and share security staff.
  • Enforcement is key, either by the authorities or the licensees. 
  • There is a late-night levy on all business’s licensed to sell alcohol after midnight. This is used to pay for police to patrol late at night looking to prevent antisocial behaviour and street urination. This could be deployed as a trial in the area.

• Busking
  • Again most people are tolerant of busking in principal but there does need to be recognition by the buskers of the residential nature of the area.
  • Buskers have become more numerous, many use amplification which has become the main cause for complaint.
  • Club music is not in the spirit of the flower market.
  • Columbia Road is narrow, noise penetrates into houses and the noise level is unacceptable.
  • Market traders calling their wares and need to call louder to overcome the noise from buskers.
  • There is an informal network of buskers, Lucy Rogers has been in dialogue with Adam who represents the buskers.
  • London Buskers Code can be found here: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/63966d_c93c506e6f8b49b6967800658a1bca0a.pdf
  • Lucy Rogers, Eduardo (Start space) and Christopher Kul-Want would work together to see if an informal agreement can be worked out with the buskers.
  • As an indication, the meeting felt that the following criteria should be met:
    • Start time 10:00 – 11:00 AM. End time 4:00 PM.
    • Noise limitation somewhere between 70-90 decibels.
  • The Council has no ability to control busking, but they can response to noise complaints. You can call 020 7364 5000 or 020 7364 5007 and ask for the Noise Service to report issues. The team are available from: Monday – Friday 9am-5pm, Thursday – Sunday 8.30pm-3.30am

• Post Meeting Update from John Fortune re Block Party

My advice is that if you become aware that this is going to happen then to report it to the council on 02073645000.  Organisers of official events must get permission from the council to hold these kinds of events.

As you know, most of these events are unofficial, without people who are responsible for the event and the first thing we know is when they are underway.  Normally taking place at weekends and evenings when fewer resources are available.  Under these circumstances, contact should be made with the police who will assess and inform the council.

 Under these circumstances and without the opportunity to prepare resources, neither the council or the police will have many realistic options.  Even where there are powers to potential deal with the situation, our responses must always be proportionate and in line with the resources available, considering safety of residents and staff.

Appendix: Summary of premises licences

The following information has been gleaned from the LBTH website:- Errors and omission excepted.

http://alcohol-entertainment.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Civica-elr-3.2_live/start.aspx

Premises	License Type	Opening Hours	Supply of alcohol	Other
Birdcage	On and Off Sales	Mon-Sun 07:00- 01:30	Mon-Sat: 10:00-01:00 Sun 08:00-01:00	Noise limiter fitted to amplification system. Reasonable steps will be taken to recognise the rights of local residences an notices requesting customers leave the area quietly.
Brawn	On sales only	Mon-Sat 09:00 to 00:30 Sun 08:00-00:30	Mon-Sat: 11:00-00.30 Sun 12:00- 10.30
Campania	On and Off Sales	Mon-Sun 09:00 to 23:00	Mon-Sun 09:00 to 23:00 Alcohol only served with a meal.	Only 5 smokers outside after 21:00. No other outside activity after 21:00. No music or patron noise audible at any residential façade.
Clutch	On and Off Sales	Mon-Thu 11:00-24:00 Fri-Sat 11:00-1:00 Sun 09:00 – 00:00	Sun-Thu 11:00-23:30 Fri-Sat 11:00-00:30	No one outside after 21:00. Noise attenuation to prevent noise breakout.
Nelsons	On and Off Sales	Mon-Sat 11:00-00:30 Sun 07:00-00:30	Mon-Sat 11:00-24:00 Sun 07:00-24:00	Doors and windows closed at 21:00. No outside drinking at all.
Portuguese Love Affair	On and Off Sales	Sun-Fri 07:30-22:00 Sat 07:30-23:00	Sun-Fri 12:00-21:30 Sat 12:00-22:30	Customers not to congregate outside the premises.
Printers and Stationers	On and Off Sales	Mon-Fri 09:00-21:00 Sat-Sun 09:00-20.00	Mon-Fri 09:00-21:00 Sat-Sun 09:00-20.00	No drinks to be taken outside the premises.
Royal Oak	On and Off Sales	Mon-Thu 10:00- 00:30 Fri-Sat 10:00-01:30 Sun 08:00 – 00:30	Mon-Thu 10:00- 23:00 Fri-Sat 10:00-24:00 Sun 08:00 – 23:00	No outside drinking after 21:30. Security 21:30 till closing Thu-Sat